of Bullseye with Lee's 125gr RN mold in a 38 special with so-so accuracy. 41 Rem Mag 35,000 Hodgdon's Basic Reloading Manual, (The free one, available for the asking. Upload or insert images from URL. When I finally took the plunge and started handloading (FIRST SHOTS WITH HANDLOADING: How Hard Can It Be? 32 H&R Mag 21,000 Load it in 38 Special dies. Hmm. Click there and go to the load data lookup section . Great article & thread!!! If I do carry a revolver its my 642 with a laser grip in my right front pocket or my SW model 69 5 shot 44 mag. Smith & Wesson Model 27 .357 Magnum (because no 6-inch Smith & Wesson .38 Special revolver was on hand). Also some WSF. Interesting. With all the loads available, you can surely find one within recoil tolerance. Caveat: I have decided that I want to be prepared for threat scenarios that include stopping a terrorist or spree-killer (the odds of which I fully recognize is statistically zero). In a day you can make over 100,000 bullets. I have experimented with both of Hornadys 200-grain semiwadcutters in this load: the more button-nosed SWC and the longer Combat/Target (C/T) version. Similarly on drills with set times such as firing five shots in five seconds onto a bull at ten yards, the Bullseye load allows a little more time per shot to take advantage of a great 1911 trigger and lets the shooter nearly push shots into the same hole. Load it like Trail Boss. As a result, Ive been able to spend far more time practicing with it rather than fussing with it. I thought the DR program was NRA, not CMP. Reloading supplies and load recipes are available everywhere. A longer case, with have a tighter crimp them a shorter one, what will lead to variations in pressure, and accuracy. 38 special is a great cartridge. If there is only ONE load, it is MAX. If you can follow simple instructions, you can safely load this cartridge. I've been using the same powders forever. Between that, some other info on other forums, Winchester's data for a lead flat point, and numbers from loaddata.com, I think I have some to start with. I use 3 gr. I have a long way to go before I'm ready to compete, but enjoy plinking and hand loading. Yes I do have a few of the older high quality classic revolvers not the current made Cast Iron garbage that is being vomited out today. The 38 Special Ball round was designed a long time ago to comply with specifications laid down for ammo that was : 1) Compliant with the Hague Accords of 1907 in regard to "unnecessarily" injurious ammunition. Load manuals often advise against downloading .38 Special jacketed loads to prevent squibs, especially the 110 and 125 grain bullets. You can fit 7.1gr of powder under the 125gn JHP bullet? 38 special was also my first cartridge to reload, and one of my greatest loves for reloading to this day. Thank you for the article. Nitpicking is its own reward., I believe the correct spelling is loathe . This wire is then fed into a machine called a cold header. If all you practice with is the easy comfortable stuff, its not really practice. I once had to quote the South Carolina Supreme Court when they had spelled it loathe., Regards, Data will be standard "book" .38 Special data and I'll not attempt to "hotrod" the loads. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - 5.0 gr unique with berry's 125gr = .38 Special squibs (solved ! i use a Lee mold 150 round nose with 4 grains of bullseye crimped into the crimp groove of the bullet. I checked out Alliant's website-no data for flat point with the powders I have, but data for Gold Dot HPs for Bullseye and Unique. The Bullseye powder pushed five into two inches flat for another 1911 that is typically a four-inch gun. . COPYRIGHT 2021, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM. Speer .38 shot cup, 5 grains of UNIQUE, and (3) #1 Buckshot pellets dates back to the 70s as a Junk Yard Dog load. I always used mixed brass because it was all I had. My hand ached for a week. Just want to state for the record, that with one of the more heavy duty Corbin presses it is possible to easily swage some hard cast bullets. 2 and No. At belly button range, very nasty load. Ive loaded some wadcutters to the point of being flush with the case mouth and big lead bullets almost to the front of the cylinder. I haven't used any of those powders but I like faster powders in 38 Special like Titegroup and Clays. Thank you. 10 for a full cylinder. It also shows that the loads were established using a 6" barrel, so regardless of what any published data shows, the chances of ever finding published data for the exact projectile and barrel length you are using, as well as the exact conditions you will be shooting in, would be nearly impossible. Any hotter and we get into a recoil issue. It was introduced in 1902 by Smith & Wesson, and has since become a worldwide cartridge. 110gr JHP! If youre recoil averse (and dont have a disability of some kind), its because you havent shot it enough. These are hand loads.. load data was published in Lyman 50th edition.. And this is a guy who normally trusted nothing but a 45 acp. The same volume of BE will weigh much more than than same volume of WST. But I found 2.4 and 2.7 interesting at 25 yards off the sandbags. 4.4 gr. Thanks to all for the info. And I still think a 158 at 600 beats hell out of a 22 magnum of any stripe. Super cheap and easy to make and would likely be a very effective defense ammo against wildlife that might be a threat to me as the two balls will spread an inch or two from each other at close range. I'm seating to what's in my loading manual. I go with the cheap and easy shake and bake technique that requires only plastic Glad container with a lid, handful of black 6mm BBs and old toaster owen. Its the only gun that has appreciated in value (as long as you ignore inflation). Tim: The Lyman 49th edition lists the accuracy loads for their cast bullets. I wanted a good carry gun that was light and reliable, so I decided that the .38 would fit and I just went with it. Dont take this the wrong way; Im guessing the average age of .38 spl fans is about my age (70). 2.9 of Clays is soft enough and dead accurate at 50yds. VV N320, N330 and N340 are products of VihtaVouri Oy Company These grips seem quite comfortable and afford a pinkie finger rest for improved control albeit with a certain loss of concealability. Minnesota. Powder Bul Weight C.O.L. You will find plenty of Red Dot loads there. The flyers tend to be severe. I tried 10 shots of each: 2.2, 2.4, 2.5, 2.7. Love my 642 for concealed carry, but have an SP101 (also a snubby) in .38 special (only) for use on the range. I cannot begin to fathom shooting 20,000 rounds out of that revolver! It is always higher when powder is next to primer. Ive been shooting them for 50 years. *WAP is not best choice for .38 special, too slow and inconsistent. Thanks very much to LarryinTX for that! Some use powders dispersed in liquids, some use electrostatic guns to spray dry powder on their bullets. The gun has appeared on TTAG before and has remained unchanged as far as accessories. I completely understand the respect for the performance of the 327 Fed, but not being a big fan of the 357 Mag (or 38 SPL plus P for that matter) I havent been drawn to the 327. head I use 3.2gr. Not sure how that translates to Bullseye powder. In several of the guns, the old standby couldnt quite duplicate the level of precision they exhibit with current production wadcutters from Black Hills or Winchester, but in each case, the load shot close to or right on the sights and nearly held the X ring. https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t2221-distinguished-revolver-loads-that-don-t-suck. The manufacturing process of swaged bullets requires relatively soft lead for two reasons. All the data says this should be an OK load , even "mid-range" for non +p. I routinely use only two powders: Trail Boss and Titegroup. Were all familiar with the old adage, Never bring a knife to a gunfight. And while we should, The active shooter is a relatively new phenomenon in the grand scheme of things. RN, 158 gr. Just an FYI. i had the same issues you did when i was trying to load for my DR revolver 14-3. to light of power had a soft recoil but ungodly bad accuracy. Then duplicate with reloads for practice. You are spot on about Trail Boss, that stuff is magical with cast reloads. My Hornady 11th edition shows this for 38 Special 158 gr lead RN, LSWCHP and LSWC. The big medicine was delivered by a 1911, but S&W K frames (favorites were Models 12 & 64) took care of everything else. http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/Powder.aspx?powderid=1, I also have the Berry's 125gr plated flat point bullet and I am trying to find a min and max load with unique powder. Left to right:148 gr. I reload a 3 CA Bulldog in .44 with 200 gr wadcutters, to recreate the Man Stopper loads of long ago. 1.) I'm new to reloading, starting off with a single stage Lee press reloading .38 special and .357 magnum with Lee's 4 die carbide set. LRNFP - your load, with a plated bullet should be Very Similar, or slightly slower and safer. My sq. The Model 19 is fine with .38s but mildly uncomfortable with .357s. Great gun with the best factory double action trigger Ive ever shot. And it isnt my first rodeo with a J-frame. I.E. Traditionally, the max SAAMI pressures were: 38 S&W 14,500 Winchester's 231 or WSL are also good powders for the .38 special. Thats a pretty clear explanation and comparison of the NEEDS of the strength of the chamber for each caliber. Thanks for your help. Start conservative if you wish. Min Charge Max Charge Optimal Charge Bullet Make Bullet Type Primer Notes; Hodgdon - 700-X: 125 gr. Lucky me. When using a 158 gr. For best accuracy in slow fire shooting, you may want to raise gun before every shot. Never got around to trying the T grips. 2) Ammo that would work in the Air Force's Air Crewman Colt's and Smith and Wesson revolvers that had weak alloy cylinders. Powder Bul Weight C.O.L. Im still new to reloading, having done 2500 38 spl with bullseye. I was looking through the Lyman 49th edition reloading manual and see the bullets you are talking about. As an old bullseye guy I've stuck with Bullseye powder for almost 30yearsusing lead bullets. For 3 that actually doesnt kick too badly. Proof of concept with .38 first, then on to 9mm where we have to actually cycle a slide but I think Ive got that problem solved. I wish Id had a commercial version of this load in my ammo allocation when we were tasked with getting classes of students up to special operations standards with the issue custom 1911s. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. Each of the classic loads is also economical. rattlesnake of a revolver made me bleed. 4.2 gr. Due to different barrel lengths, type of bullet, seating depth, primer type and other factors, you may not get near the FPS charted. It is less of an issue on a progressive press, but still requires attention. Notes: Bbl Length: 5.6; primer: Fed. 9.) I had enough, The Model 1911 pistol will officially turn 100 years old on May 5, 2011. When I finally nabbed my own canisters of Bullseye, the first load I spun up was 2.7 grains under Hornadys hollow-base wadcutters. Case life is excellent, especially for mild loads. IF YOU ARE USING SWAGED 158GR BULLETS 3.1 WILL WORK, IF USING HARD CAST 3.3 IS NEEDED. Which left me with the last two. I havent shot too many full house Casull loads, but I get a huge grin when shooting my reduced loads of 7.5grs of Trail Boss under a Cast Performance 360gr WLFN. Be careful about published sources (and doubly so about internet sources), regarding maximum loads for the 38 special. And Vihtavouris N320 and N321 fall in this range for burning times. However, after consulting my several different manuals, 3.5 seems to be a border line max load. I bet you can find some nice shooting loads with Bullseye. This load tends to clock about 670 feet-per-second (fps) give or take 20, depending on the exact brand of wadcutter and the revolver its fired in. I keep thinking about trading it for a Model 27 or, maybe, one of the new Pythons for extra weight. The key to those rounds, in spite of their paltry muzzle velocity of something like 825 feet per second out of a snubbie, is their diameter and mass: they will make significant diameter holes and penetrate respectably in attackers. Hence I carry a semi-auto pistol chambered in .40 S&W. Notes: primer: CCI 500; case: Speer; NOTE: All loads are maximum. (For those who would. Jacketed bullets create a bit more wear on the rifling, but its better than trying to wire brush out a bunch of lead build up. Yeah no. My J frame S&Ws are all older models, and came with the small grips that are still on some models. Depending on the drill, 200-grain .45s let shooter push faster or use available time to shoot better, with significantly less recoil than hardball. The design of this modern revolver makes the SW guns seem archaic. Think that if a .44 spl. JHP (now discontinued) 5 rounds . My other son fired one shot and handed it back. Here is the dillema: The Lyman manual says starting load is 3.2 grains and MAX. And if youre doing that with a snub.let me know I wanna watch you shoot em. I almost spit out my drink when I read your comment. less to start.) I shoot almost exclusively cast lead from my handguns. Swaged bullets do not have the hardness of poured (cast) lead. Just look for a lead remover tool with bronze screens. I'm going to start with 3.8 grains. Two years into my second century a Colt MK IV Series 80 LTWT Commander 45 ACP still delivers the big medicine, but I have become enthralled with a new wheel gun- a Charter Arms Professional 32 H&R Magnum. I use 3.2 gr Bullseye to push a 125 gr cast along at 750 - 775 fps in the 38 SPL from 5 and 6" barreled revolvers. One cool load Im working on is two pellets of 000 Buck. My experience has always been with bullseye powder. is a good place to start. Therefore, .38 Special +P ammo can be as much as 17.5 percent hotter than standard .38 Special. But I think I was still loading the cases from that first box when I quit loading 18 years later! [.38 Special] is a very versatile and useful round. The Speers do occasionally and the Magnus a little more. Cartridge : .38 Special (SAAMI)Bullet : .357, 125, FP Rainier Useable Case Capaci: 20.320 grain H2O = 1.319 cm Cartridge O.A.L. WST for .38 special 125 gr plated bullets, Re: WST for .38 special 125 gr plated bullets. Rated 5.00 out of 5 based on 9 customer ratings. That isnt unique to Bullseye, but is certainly more pronounced with the relatively small charges required. Best and most realistic article about the .38 special ive found. Rules say (e) Ammunition- Any safe .38 caliber ammunition using the 158 grain round nose or Semi-Wadcutter bullet only. I would say I completely disagree with you on ever even contemplating using a revolver for self defense unless you are a person that has never owned a gun and not likely ever to practice with it. That for just a nice shooting load one cant beat 148gr wad-cutter for pure fun. 110gr JHP! I probably shoot more 38s than everything else put together but a Dillon 750 makes loading a lot faster. . (Or so I have heard.). load is 4.4 grains for 38 special and 5.0 grains is a +P load. YMMV. Would you like to react to this message? No more lead in the barrel or on my hands. 3 1/2" average not included flyers which seem to happen on every group test. Wow I learned something vital from this topic. Jack it up a notch and go with .327 Federal Magnum. 4.2 gr. Also, too light loads don't allow the bullet to seal the gases causing problems. 6.) I fired 3 Remington 125 SJHP 357s from a 340 and thought i had nerve damage in my hand. Is it considered safe to down load a cartridge that far under starting? I'm guessing they still go bang, and leave the gun to go downrange. Accurate's No. This is not loaded 9mm ammo. Easiest way is casting lines and a sprue mark on nose or base. Ive saved all my .38 brass over the last couple of years for whenever I find time to get into reloading. THAT TIME IS BETTER SPENT LEARNING HOW TO SHOOT THE REVOLVER IN THE RAPID FIRE PORTION. I use CCI Snake shot for two and Buffalo Bore short Barrel 130 gr. I will always love the 38 SPL (never cared much for 357 Mag), but that 3 seven shot Charter with both 32 S&W Long and 32 H&R Mag is truly the bees knees. It is just a guide and the reason you should start under these charges and work up. On my J frame S&W without the CT #305 Laser Grips, I swapped out to a Hoque set. 110gr JHP! You may find it will need to be faster for good 50 yd. I soon traded off a Colt Frontier Scout .22 LR for an S&W Model 15 and happily chased all manner of small game and landfill targets with my stash of wadcutters. The powder charges used for .38 are forgiving. I found it to be a nice blend of accuracy, soft recoil, and sure functioning, with enough spice behind it to reliably topple steel targets. A 4 inch barrel would be my choice as well. Berry says load plated bullets to mid-range jacketed bullets of same profile and weight or equal to hard cast. Don't know of any bullets like that. Your experience is definitely motivation for me to give my J-frame more range time! )Lastly, the .38 SPL has a very large following and materials can be had readily. Most of these are at the upper end. Soft shooting. I'd imagine I'm not the first person to use this load, but I have found it is a very sooty/smokey load. If you, I took the vow not to buy any more AR-15s a couple of years ago. Enter 38 Special. Also internet references 2009, Copyright. Thats not quite how that works. 1.455 in. Because we have no action to cycle, the novice reloader can afford to be off a bit if they have an entry-level scale or powder dispenser. When I finally got my hands on a pound of Bullseye, I naturally started with some of these loads. 3.7gr WST with Zero 158 SWC did the job for me. Recoil is subjective and I feel no difference between that and an 750-775 fps load. I have found that some powder coated bullets which are the same weight as lead, feel quite punchy out of the gun. Loads for .38 S&W: This short, little cartridge has been around since the 1870's and was most common in the "break-top" models. TITEGROUP AND 125GR 38 SPECIAL LOAD DATA Ammunition-Gunsmithing Reloading Forum Register Notices Consider Becoming A Supporting Member Click HERE For The Benefits Reloading All Reloading Topics Go Here Thread Tools Display Modes # 1 01-24-2016, 05:38 AM RONALD HENSLEY Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Waynesville NC Posts: 114 Likes: 12 .38 Special (Using Hornady Bullets) reloading data with 353 loads. Hornady also has load data for the 110-grain .357 XTP for the lower-pressure .38 Automatic. However recoil will be the limiting factor especially for the short line. I really enjoy Trail Boss and use it extensively for plain lead and plated bullets. My grandkids think Im pulling their leg, when I tell them about the freedoms that NIMBYs took away. And yes I appreciate them for a hunting gun because of their fine accuracy and find trigger pulls (older classic guns). .38 Special: What Ive Learned After 20,000 Rounds, Stacey Abrams Whopper: No one believes in eroding the Second Amendment, Scottsdale Home Owner Uses Shotgun to Stop Naked Home Invader Caught in His Childs Room [VIDEO], Liberty Ammunitions Innovative Personal Defense Rounds are Lighter, Go Faster, and Hit Harder. While I do have a GP100 in .357 magnum, I dont like shooting .38 special ammo out of it, because cleaning powder residue out of the longer chambers is a real bitch. Replaced w/ Altamont laminated wood, and later w/ open- back Pachmayrs- the less-pronounced finger grooves fit me better. A significant difference in speeds is usually noted. I use Bullseye powder but it's about the same burn rate. My point being is I used the resources I have, looked elsewhere (The High Road, The Firing Line), and wanted to try here. All right are Reserved Reload Ammo, Reloading The .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol), hi=849 lo=728 ES=122 (powder up and down), hi=821 lo=684 ES=137 (powder up and down), hi=815 lo=637 ES=178 (powder in normal positions), hi=714 lo=549 ES=165 (powder up and down), hi=758 lo=693 ES=65 (powder up and down)(DO NOT USE LESS), Hi=886, Lo=861, ES=25 (This is a Carolina Cast bullet SWC-great cowboy load), hi=859 lo=743 ES=116 *(my personal medium load), hi=875 lo=685 ES=190.2(powder up and down), hi=710 lo=497 ES=213 (powder up and down), hi=791 lo=625 ES=166 (Powder up and down), hi=785 lo=670 ES=115 (powder up and down), hi=801, low=766 ES=35.32 in Contender 14 bbl. Ok, will the bullet easily pass thru the cylinder throat, if so, you need the next larger size bullet dia. 5, #2230, and #2460 are products of Accurate Arms Company One cool load Im working on is two pellets of 000 Buck.. I first started reloading 40+ years ago at a Lee Loader in .38 Special for a brand new Smith & Wesson Model 66 I had just purchased. Bullseye Select A Caliber or Gauge Below To View Recipes. JHP, (WC= WadCutter, SWC= Semi-WadCutter, HP= Hollow Point, RN= Round Nose), (JHP= Jacketed Hollow Point and if GC indicated, means Gas Check at bottom of lead bullet). It seems to burn completely in the .38 and is not as critical as the faster powders like Bullseye. If you havent taken a look at what the .38 Special offers, youre selling yourself short. Ask your Dealer, or call Hodgdon), has a Cowboy Load section, (near the center fold), that lists data for about all SASS calibers. For those who have issues using auto pistils, due ti arthritis or other medical issues with the hands an LCR or 642 is a great choice. I meant to say NRA. It would seem that a 125 grain GDHP is of the same weight and would have a similar profile to what you want to use. A little shopping around might do better, as would casting the lead bullets. May 15, 2012. kc2za said: Hi All, I have been loading .38 spl with 2.7 gr. DR loads (158gr Remington swaged LSWC over 3.6gr AA#2 in Winchester .38 Special cases) I shoot American eagle, remington factory,remington umc, and mag tech. In fact, in the past I specifically sought out revolvers chambered in 38 SPL only, knowing I would never be putting a 357 Mag in it (I carried a 4 GP100 chambered in 38 SPL as a duty sidearm in the early 90s). I carry my M642 extensively, but I only shoot it occasionally because it is a snappy little b!tch with standard loads. The proof pressure MAP specified by SAAMI is 29,500 psi for both rounds. This gun now wears factory synthetic grips which are decent but could use more girth behind the trigger guard. If she had shot more, I would have probably bought another set of dies, to prevent the need for changing adjustments between the two. 2.) Sorry I can't be of more help, but I use 158 grain coated RNFP and don't use any of those powders that you list. Don't worry too much about lead/coated/plated/jacketed. Fifty yards of course is the preferred distance. I have 100% confidence in my ability to shoot quickly, accurately, and comfortably with the 32, and I also have confidence that, if needed, my 32 H&R loads from Buffalo Bore and DoubleTap are quite capable of doing the job they are asked to do. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. There are so many new powders today, its hard to keep up. We look at three classics: one each in .45 ACP, .38 Special, and 9mm. The Charter Arms .44 models are potential CCWs, but are too light to properly handle the .44 spl. The load you use will be up to your gun. Haven't tried it in the Colt Officer's Model Match yet. I reached an interesting number the other day. Youd just be risking ALOT firing it in a .38 framed revolver. The beauty of shooting a .38 is that you can easily practice at the ranges you'd fight at using basically any cheap bullet at minimal expense. Wes, SASS Wire rules prohibit posting specific load data on the forum, but it can be passed along via private message or email.
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